What are you really getting with those 'legal insurance' plans?
Filed under: Insurance, Ripoffs and Scams
PrePaid Legal Services and companies like it sell plans that are billed as "legal insurance." These plans supposedly help the average consumer received "free" legal services in many cases, and discounted services in other cases. They're often marketed as offering help to the "little guy" who might otherwise not be able to afford a lawyer.
The truth? These plans offer very little real help to consumers. Many types of cases are excluded under the plans, so you won't be receiving any "free" services related to them. If you do happen to qualify for services, you'll find out quickly that the services are very limited and are mostly only for time spent on trial. Many hours of legal services will be needed prior to the trial, but most of this is excluded from the plans, and plan participants will have to pay out of their pockets for those services.
More details in this video. (Disclosure: I was paid by Fraud Discovery Institute to help research the issues raised in this video.)
Tracy L. Coenen, CPA, MBA, CFE performs fraud examinations and financial investigations for her company Sequence Inc. Forensic Accounting, and is the author of Essentials of Corporate Fraud.
The truth? These plans offer very little real help to consumers. Many types of cases are excluded under the plans, so you won't be receiving any "free" services related to them. If you do happen to qualify for services, you'll find out quickly that the services are very limited and are mostly only for time spent on trial. Many hours of legal services will be needed prior to the trial, but most of this is excluded from the plans, and plan participants will have to pay out of their pockets for those services.
More details in this video. (Disclosure: I was paid by Fraud Discovery Institute to help research the issues raised in this video.)
Tracy L. Coenen, CPA, MBA, CFE performs fraud examinations and financial investigations for her company Sequence Inc. Forensic Accounting, and is the author of Essentials of Corporate Fraud.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
5-02-2008 @ 9:29PM
Mark said...
Please check all your facts before making such ridiculous statements. Look at everything the program offers and then decide if it is worth the price. I like being able to get legal advice and finding out what my rights are without worrying about cost. I got my will done at no extra cost. I have an attorney to represent me if I get a speeding ticket. And I would much rather get a discount on other legal services from a quality attorney that has some accountability than picking an attorney out of the phone book and taking what I get. No protection that only costs $16-$26 per month is going to cover every legal situation you could possibly get involved with. If you want a plan that does, find a large law firm and put them on retainer for $5-10,000 per month. You are doing your readers a huge disservice by putting out these slanted and biased statments.
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5-02-2008 @ 10:25PM
Tracy Coenen said...
Mark - I'm sorry to say that the will you got isn't worth what you paid for it, and there are very few other services you're entitled to under the plan. If you ever need real legal services, you'll find out the hard way that your plan offers you next to nothing.
5-03-2008 @ 6:44AM
Harold D. Thomas Jr. said...
I would be the first to agree that Pre-Paid Legal Services, INC. Legal Plans do not cover for free every legal contingency under the Sun. I would "NOT" agree however they are not worth the money spent for them. I mean it is better to have a plan that covers "MANY" of your most commonly needed Legal services than none at all.
I will admit upfront as a long time Independent Associate & Member I am somewhat biased on this matter. MY bias is based on experience and not blind faith. I will not argue the point about becoming a Millionaire with the Company. To become a Millionaire with us entails the same things it would take to become a Millionaire in Corporate America. Hard, Smart, & long work. The problem is MOST Networkers flutter from company to company looking for the easy way to the top. No wonder they average $5 a week. lol
I am not sure where you are from, but here in South Texas "competent" legal advice starts at about $75 an hour. Talking to many of my associates across the Country they tell me in their areas it is upward of $125 an hour. That being the case two hours of Legal consultations MORE than pays for your membership.
To me it is about as crazy to tell someone it is not worth having a Pre-Paid Legal Services, INC. Legal Plan because it does not cover ever possible legal happening under the sun for free as telling them it is a waste to have Home Owners Insurance because it does not normally cover rising water damage.
Harold
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5-03-2008 @ 9:13AM
Tracy Coenen said...
Maybe even worse than the lack of services actually provided under the plan is the fact that this company is a pyramid scheme. It is all about recruiting in new marks, not actually selling plans. People would do well to check out http://www.prepaidillegal.com
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5-03-2008 @ 3:57PM
Harold D. Thomas Jr. said...
Tracy I think we are going to have to nick name you the Artful Dodger. I mean you managed to post more half truth drivel while dodging my points. It is beyond proposterious to call the PPL business opportunity a pyramid scheem. I have been with the company for 5 years and have never been paid a thin dime for signing up an associate. I get paid when I or one of my down line associates sells a Membership period. Now if that is a pyramid scheme then so is EVERY Real Estate brokerage firm in America that employees sub Brokers & Realtors!
I can not help but laugh the site that you use for your MISinformation is The Fraud Discovery Institute. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't they the people who short sell stock after they have done hit pieces on companies in an attempt to tank the stock for a profit? You do not have to answer the question it is rhetorical. I know for a fact they are one in the same people. I can not help but wonder with all this misinformation and half truth posting you are dong if you are not in on the short sell racket yourself.
I also have to chuckle that one of the advertisers on your site is LifeLock. A company founded by a would be Felon.
Harold
5-03-2008 @ 4:02PM
Tracy Coenen said...
Harold - These types of personal attacks are typical of those in MLM cults. Fraud Discovery Institute is one of my sources because I helped research the information for their reports. I am very familiar with PrePaid Legal. As for the advertising here... it's not my site and I don't control the ads, so don't waste your time trying to use them in your arguments against me.
7-01-2008 @ 11:25AM
DanInDixie said...
The misrepresentations on this site are too numerous to mention. What a joke. Remember, this is Barry Minkow talking. PPL has the endorsements of four former attorneys general, the US Chamber of Commerce, and the US Black Chamber of Commerce. Barry Minkow has fraud convictions. Take your choice of whom to believe.
5-03-2008 @ 6:33PM
susan said...
I have been a member of Prepaid Legal for a long time. I do have to admit the first few years I did not utilize it as much as we have in the last 5 years. It has been very helpful. When our children started to drive especially our son. He received several speeding tickets early on. He was able to consult with an attorney on how to answer questions from the judge when he went to court. We also received legal service at one hearing when he was trying to get points against his license reduced. We have used the service on multiple consultations before making legal decisions. The service also helped me, in a crisis with a collection agency, with communication with a financial issue. One of the most beneficial services has been with our home business. Every year we have 2 to 3 clients that end up owing money on their accounts. I would have to say that about 90% of those accounts were paid in full after receiving a collection letter from our prepaid legal provider.
I would recommend this service to anyone. It is nice to know that if I have any issues they are there to help guide me in my legal decisions. We have hired outside attorneys for 2 legal situations in the past but started our legal search for those situations at prepaid legal. They have always been very open and up front about the fees that would be charge for services beyond our policy.
This has been a great investment for our family.
Thank you Pre-paid Legal!!!!
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5-03-2008 @ 7:27PM
Brian said...
I have been a PPL member and Independent Associate for about 4 or 5 years now. For what I pay for my membership and what I get out of the plan more then pays for itself. I have used it 5 or 6 times now. Once I used it for a speeding ticket and the attorney from the prepaid legal provider firm called in and got my speed reduced and also got the fine reduced, saving me about $80 on the fine and points on my license. Which in tune saved on my insurance. The prepaid legal provider firms are real. They do a wonderful job at what they do for the PPL members. I have never had any proplems with the prepaid legal provider firm or with PPL Inc. I find they go out of there way to help. If you get this plan thinking that it covers everything under the sun, then you are a fool. $26 a month does not do that, use the brain GOD gave you for something other then bashing something that you or someone else may have had a proplem or bad experience with, it happens, in everything. I have had more proplems with my bank, insurance Co., phone Co, ..... you get the picture, then I have with PPL.
I went out to one of there Conventions and found a lot of people that love this Co.
The plans cover what they say it covers and spells out the rest in plain english. And you get a 25% discount off there regular hourly rate, I know this for fact because I have used them for something out side the plan.
Thank GOD for PPL!!!
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5-04-2008 @ 2:09AM
Luke said...
Pre-paid Legal is a good company that provides a valuable service. If PPL was in fact a "pyramid scheme" why then would they be invited on to the NYSE? Why would they still be around after 30+ years? Why would they be endorsed by numerous former attorneys general? Would a company using a pyramid scheme have over 15 years of consecutive growth?
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5-04-2008 @ 2:44AM
Luke said...
Just what is this "Fraud Discovery Institute", and who is this Barry Minkow guy? I decided to consult the ever popular online source wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Minkow
According to wikipedia.org:
"He [Minkow]served just under seven and a half years, most of them at Englewood Federal Prison in Jefferson County, Colorado." Wiki also says "In sentencing him, U.S. District Court Judge Dickran Tevrizian described Minkow as a man without a conscience. He also rejected Minkow's plea for a lighter sentence as "a joke" and "a slap on the wrist" for someone who had manipulated the financial system."
And well, here's another interesting tidbit from wikipedia: "[The Hon. Judge] Tevrizian dismissed the original judgment on behalf of investors and lenders against Minkow was in 2002. His probation was also cut short as of the fall of 2002. Currently the former convict's outstanding monetary debt remains with Union Bank of California, with principal and interest totalling around $19 million (USD) as of 2004. Minkow pays up to 30% of his $68,500 yearly salary to the bank.[citation needed] Additionally, it has been said that the great majority of his speaker's fees go to pay this debt.[citation needed] Minkow and his wife Lisa live with two adopted Guatemalan children in north San Diego County, California."
Just as a side note, I'm guessing that those video clips appear to be several years old. PPL does not hide anything from it's associates or it's members. It's all in black and white. It's ethical. It's certainly legal. I don't know what Mr. Minkow and Ms. Coenen have to gain by playing old videos of PPL's CEO and slamming the company. I'll have to do a little more research on the "Fraud Discovery Institute".
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5-04-2008 @ 10:48AM
Tracy Coenen said...
Luke - Make sure that your research includes the hundreds of millions of dollars of fraud schemes that Minkow has uncovered and reported to the federal government... who shut down the schemes and stopped consumers from losing even more money.
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7-01-2008 @ 10:27AM
Luke said...
Yes, I applaud Mr. Minkow for the positive impact he has made in regard to fraud and abuse. But as you know there are always 2 sides to every story. The readers have a right to know about Minkow's checkered past. And that he has profited by short selling Pre-paid Legal stock. (correct me if I'm wrong) I did quite a bit of reading and there are just as many Minkow critics as fans. Many find his integrity questionable.
I personally find it hard to believe that someone of your caliber (you have an impressive resume!) would associate with someone like Minkow. I guess it pays well and gets your name out there.
Pre-paid has had it's share of legal problems. Since the time of the video clips, tte company has corrected its marketing practices. They, like Minkow, have paid their dues. Isn't there a law against trying someone twice for same crime? Minkow needs to quit slamming PPL and go after the real fraud and abuse. MLM/Network Marketing is a legitmate business model. Anyone can succeed, anyone can fail. The beautiful thing is you don't need an MBA, JD, or MD to earn a six or seven figure income. Success is directly related to one's ability to sell and the amount of energy one puts into the business.
5-05-2008 @ 4:31PM
Sean said...
Tracy, perhaps I can offer somewhat of an unbiased perspective (or can I?). I was a pre-paid legal associate for about five years. While I can no longer recommend the business model, I have always found great value in the service as have many friends and family that I sold the product to. You are correct in stating that the membership does not cover everything under the sun for the monthly price, it does offer many services that do come in handy and are well worth the $16 a month that I pay for them.
On the business side of it, there is a lot of smoke and mirrors that goes on. Current associates that have posted to this board speak of PPD's ethics, but it's only because the don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Top associates have "no-chargeback" deals which allow them the huge incomes that they brag about from stage. I don't have a problem with them getting side deals, but I do have a problem with it if they tell everyone that they are on the same playing field, because they are not.
On a side note Tracy, you seem really bitter and angry towards PPL. Did you have some kind of personal experience with them?
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5-05-2008 @ 4:33PM
Tracy Coenen said...
LOL - What have I said that's "bitter" or "angry"? Is it because I'm a realist and say that it's a pyramid scheme? Is it because I tell the truth that the services are near worthless?
5-06-2008 @ 10:49PM
Sharron said...
Tracy,
Your comments are biased and extremely unprofessional. Pre Paid Legal is traded on the New York Stock Exchange, maybe you have heard of that although I notice you didn't comment on the previous posters statement of that same fact.
Common sense tells you that if a company cheats you out of a couple of hundred dollars that you are pretty much not going to go hire an attorney at the going rate but for $16.00 dollars a month, you can get a PPL attorney to write a letter and recoup those couple of hundred bucks.....can you say "VALUE" to the user.
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5-06-2008 @ 10:59PM
Tracy Coenen said...
Sharron - If exposing a fraud is considered "unprofessional" then I'll take that label any day. Being traded on the NYSE means absolutely nothing. Enrong was traded on the NYSE. Was that a good company?
5-13-2008 @ 1:52PM
James said...
Tracy, why not do some active research. You can sign up for a Prepaid Legal plan for $17.00 a month + the "One Time" $10.00 enrollment fee and see exactly how the plan works. It's a month to month contract.
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5-13-2008 @ 1:57PM
Tracy Coenen said...
I don't give money to pyramid schemes.
7-01-2008 @ 5:55PM
DanInDixie said...
Tracy, so much of what you have to say on other topics is "right on the money" that it pains me to correct you on this issue.
You can call something whatever you want - it doesn't make it so. You use the phrase "pyramid scheme" for every MLM business that you encounter, and the terms are NOT interchangable. The definition of a pyramid scheme is one in which participants are encouraged or required to "front load" their purchases of the products the company offers. Since PPL sells a SERVICE, and members and associates are prevented from buying more than one legal plan and one identity-theft protection plan, it's impossible for PPL to ever fit the definition of a pyramid scheme.
MLM business structures are used to sell many valuable, and many invaluable, products and services. The MLM industry represents legitimate and illegitimate business opportunities as well. You cannot lump them all together, at least not with any accuracy or integrity. Citibank purchased A.L. Williams; Berkshire Hathaway purchased Pampered Chef - they obviously saw value and legitimacy in an MLM structure.
You'd have even more credibility if you showed a willingness to broaden your understanding of business, rather than paint every industry with one color that you chose long ago.
Re: the PPL service. I've had my membership for over 5 years, and everything I've asked of the provider law firm has been done for me. I estimate I've saved about $2500 in legal fees over that time. In an earlier post, you imply through your choice of words that getting wills done, getting advice on contracts, getting help with stubborn merchants, having representation for moving-traffic violations, and incorporating a business are somehow NOT "real legal needs." They most certainly are. If and when I'm ever sued, my memberships has a generous amount of "pre-trial" hours (you imply that there are none, which is not true of any PPL membership). I don't expect it to cover them all, but it covers a lot more than I could afford to pay for on my own.
Bear in mind that over 40,000 business offer PPL as an employee benefit; I think you'd be hard-pressed to make the case that over 40,000 businesses, large and small, were duped into offering something illegitimate.
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